How would you evaluate the state of emergency in the three affected states of Borno, Yobe and Adamawa, given that opinions still appear divided along party lines on the propriety or otherwise of the imposition?
Personally, I was happy with the declaration of the state of emergency in the three northern states. And I must state clearly here that my position has nothing to do with that of my party. What President Goodluck Jonathan did was to give a human face to the imposition of the state of emergency, unlike what we had during former President Olusegun Obasanjo where existing political structures were shortchanged.
By invoking the provision of Section 306 of the 1999 Constitution as amended, to impose a state of emergency, he was careful not to have tampered with or dissolved the existing political structure on ground in the affected states. For me, he should be commended for that.
As to whether I supported it, I will say yes I did, to the extent that so long as it would bring about relief or respite to the people in the affected states and by extension, to the entire northern states including Abuja. The situation we find ourselves is a terrible one. But the President was kind enough to have set up a committee to consider the prospect of an amnesty. This did not seem to be yielding fruit and he probably ran out of patience.
That being said, the declaration was timely. I know that my party, the Action Congress of Nigeria, ACN, was not in support the imposition. But the views I have expressed remain my personal opinion as an individual and not that of my party.
As a country, we will be 100 years next year and we have come to a point where we must ask ourselves: do we need to reexamine some of the factors which brought us together? Do we need to go back and renegotiate the basis of our existence? It is very important and we must not shy away from it, if we must continue as one.
We were cobbled together by our colonial masters and if the factors that made that necessary are no longer necessary, we need to discuss the terms and conditions for our continuous existence as a country.
Personally, I support the indissolubility of Nigeria. But this cannot not be, when our young men and women are being slaughtered like cows by a few misguided elements. Before the imposition of the state emergency, a pastor of my church told of a man who was pursued to his house by suspected members of Boko Haram. On getting to the house, he could not be found, but they met his son. He was asked to produce his father, but when the young man could not do that, he was slaughtered. The elderly man was watching from the ceiling, where he was hiding how his son was being butchered. Three days later, this same was in church. That showed the old man’s faith in God and also that not even the killing of his son by Boko Haram members was enough to break his spirit and relationship with his creator.
Also, my son’s former roommate in the Customs Service, an Igbo man, was travelling from Maiduguri down to the south. And along the way, they ran into the Boko Haram elements. All the occupants in the bus were asked to get down identify themselves by their religion. Sadly, all the Christians including my son’s roommate were ordered out and slaughtered like goats. This was a young man who had graduated seven years from the university but without a job until he was recruited into the Customs and posted to Maiduguri.
Given the aforementioned horrific scenario, is this how we are going to watch while young and vibrant innocent lives are being wasted in the name of religion or politics? This was where this country was headed until President Jonathan had to embark on this last resort. They say they want every Nigeria to be a Moslem, no problem. But how possible is that? So, we must sit down together and negotiate whether or not we all want to be Moslems. For those of us who do not want to be Moslems, we can decide to allow them have a different country where everyone will practise his religion unmolested. So, I do not fault the action of President Jonathan at all in imposing a state of emergency.
Should the President have acted otherwise by being sweeping in his imposition of emergency rule?
I do not agree that he should have acted otherwise. He acted prudently by allowing the democratic institutions to remain. He was patient enough and that is why he should be allowed to experiment with the measure. He acted within the bounds of constitutional powers allowed him.
The story of our upstream subsector of oil and gas is well documented- one of graft and inefficiency. As a member of the Senate Committee on Upstream Petroleum, what effort is your committee making to curb the menace of corruption commonly associated with the sector?
Sincerely, I think this question should go to the chairman of the committee. What I can say is that as a member, the PIB which is before the Senate, with about three or four committees brought together under the chairmanship of Upstream Petroleum, Senator Paul Paulker, we are positive that once the bill is passed, it will correct inherent corruption as well as associated anomalies in the sector.
The politics of Edo state assumed a new hue with the advent of Governor Adams Oshiomhole on the state’s political landscape. How do you ensure the state does not recede into the hitherto dark days of political fiefdom when he vacates office in 2016?
As we speak, the comrade was voted in last year, 2012, and was sworn in in November of same year. It is not even a year yet and so we should not be talking about when he is leaving office. Let us pray to God to grant him wisdom to be able to steer the ship of the state in the right direction and sustain this tempo of development and popularity he has brought to the state.
There is no doubt that Comrade Adams Oshiomhole has given us a new hope and a new face as far as the politics of Edo State is concerned. Before now, nobody had a voice in the politics of the state unless you were sponsored by one or two leaders from the state.
Governor Oshiomhole is a wind of change God gave to Edo people. He came like a bolt out of the blue and said let the people lead. Today, you can see a bus driver driving into Edo Government House to offer his advice to the governor. That is how he has democratised and simplified governance in the state.
How to sustain this is through good governance and so far, he has been exhibiting this. He is being likened to former Governor Samuel Ogbemudia and late Governor Ambrose Ali whom everyone has continued to sing their praises. Definitely, Governor Oshiomhole is going to leave a legacy of good governance and unparallel achievements.
He has giving voice to the voiceless and hopes to those who thought that until they knew a certain godfather, they would never get elected into any political office in the state and at the centre.
Will it then be proper to conclude that we may have heard the last on the politics of godfatherism in Edo politics?
Well, I cannot predict tomorrow because I am not God. But all I know and all I can say is that there is awareness today in Edo politics all across the three senatorial districts where votes count. Hitherto, elections were conducted and results of such elections were written and released from one man’s house. But thank God, Oshiomhole emerged and saved us from the embarrassment.
As a former PDP senator who won an election into the senate at a time results were ordered written by one man, how would compare where you came from and where you are now with regards to party ethos?
I will not comment on where I came from and where I am now because an election has been won by me on the platform of the ACN, and I am representing the entire Edo South Senatorial District, irrespective of party affiliation. Whether one is ACN, the PDP or the Labour Party, I offer everyone representation. Of course, this is not an election year where we have to castigate one another. As a slogan, I believe that there is no animosity, no quarrel and no bitterness once voting is over.
As Chairman of Senate Committee on Foreign and Domestic Debts, how would you react to Nigeria’s current debt profile of over US$6 billion, barely six years that former President Olusegun Obasanjo ensured the country was free of any debt overhang? And how disturbed are you by this new trend?
It is true that former President Obasanjo exited Nigeria from the Paris Club. But we were not entirely free of debts as Nigerians will want to believe. Again, governance in any country of the world is associated with borrowing because there are situations that may confront a country that you cannot help but resort to external facilities to address them. So from time to time, government of any country, both developed and underdeveloped will need external facilities to solve some of its pressing needs. Therefore, Nigeria cannot be an exception. Every country borrows.
What we have noticed is that Nigeria is borrowing and it is doing so at a very alarming rate. That being said, let me clarify here that we are still below the 40 per cent borrowing threshold. Nigerians need not be disturbed about that. For Nigeria’s debt profile to pose a threat to the economy, it has to be above the 40 per cent threshold. And currently, we are far below that. We are not even up to 20 per cent.
But why would Nigeria borrow at such alarming rate, despite its huge foreign earnings from crude oil sales? Is that the way countries like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela borrow to sustain their economies?
You are right. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela may not be borrowing because they know how to manage proceeds from their crude oil sales. But same cannot be said of Nigeria which is also a rich oil producing country.
The problem with Nigeria is management and that of leadership. We are praying that God should give to Nigeria such selfless leaders who will manage key areas of our economy. In that way, we can navigate ourselves out of our current quagmire. This country needs selfless leaders.
Borrowing, as we speak is ongoing and our debt profile is on the increase.
Of course, just as we are borrowing, we are also paying. For instance, in the 2013 appropriation bill, about US$500million was appropriated for the servicing of foreign loans.
How much oversight does your committee exercise over foreign borrowings by the federal government?
What is currently before the senate is the 2012 and 2014 borrowing plan which is about US$9 billion over the next two years. We have alerted the Ministry of Finance to furnish us with details of what and how much is going to the different sectors of the economy as well as the ministries and agencies.
It is when we are armed with these details that the senate can then ask the different committees to monitor what is going to each ministry and agencies. For instance, the housing sector is going to get about US$300 million for its experimental housing scheme. So, the committees in both chambers should be able to play oversight functions to ensure that the allocations are appropriately applied in line with target goals.
Some of the foreign loans Nigeria has obtained fall within what is called concessionary loan which interest rate is not more than two per cent with a 20 to 40-year moratorium.
The challenge of our committee currently is to ensure that every loan collected or obtained is attached to projects.
We have also sensitised other standing committees in the National Assembly of the need to ensure that all the loans from the executive which are before them and requiring their approval are attached to specific projects. This is to enable the committees to follow up with their oversight role.
On the domestic borrowing, the committee is working hard to limit the rate at which government goes to the bond market so that the private sector is not snuffed out or shut out from accessing the bond or capital market.
One major problem or challenge with our debt management is the Fiscal responsibility Act or fiscal autonomy which allows even the other tiers of government to access foreign loan facilities. Recently, the Akwa Ibom State Government went to borrow from one of the foreign banks to refinance a loan they had previously borrowed from one of the banks abroad.
This is so because the Federal Government has no strict control over the states as a result of the Fiscal Responsibility Act.
How verifiable are these debts?
Of course, they are verifiable from the Ministry of Finance, the Debt Management Office as well as the various MDAs.
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