Professor Jubril Aminu was Minister of Education and Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources respectively, from 1989 to 1999. A professor of Cardiology and one-time Vice-Chancellor of the University of Maiduguri, Aminu was elected, senator of the Federal Republic, representing Adamawa Central between 2003 and 2011. He was also Nigerian Ambassador to the USA from 1999 to 2003. In this bare – knuckle interview with LINUS OBOGO, Assistant Editor, Aminu speaks on the political crisis in his home state, Adamawa, his regrets, the state of emergency in Borno, Yobe and Adamawa States, and sundry issues.
President Goodluck Jonathan has declared a state of emergency in Borno, Yobe and Adamawa States. How far reaching is the measure in putting down the violent activities of Boko Haram sect in those states and particularly in the North?
It was an expected action, and therefore, one was not surprised. As a matter of fact, I think someone in the Aso Rock Villa appeared to have spilled the beans. And in the broadcast by the President, he appeared to have been very angry and disturbed and he wanted to make sure that the step taken, if it would be effective, would largely contain the security that appeared to have gone haywire.
It also appeared that it was widely accepted, because usually, the problem presidents are likely to have in declaring a state of emergency is to have a two thirds majority of the National Assembly to endorse it and for it to be effective in law. It also looked to me like an extensive consultation was done.
Now, the question will be what will be the reaction of the political parties and the people from those localities where emergency law has been declared? I think that apart from the political jiggery-pokery associated with measures such as this, the measure will be accepted, pending what effect it will have. There is no doubt that the affected states and people will give the state of emergency the benefit of the doubt.
I could understand why the President has not gone far enough. It is very simple to appreciate and it is simply politics. Ordinarily, it would have been expected that the two tiers of government would be suspended and military administrators be put in place. This was not done and so, I fear that the current measure will affect the effectiveness of the state of emergency in the affected state. As I said, it is all politics. This is 2013 and very soon, it will be 2014, with the general elections coming on the heels in 2015. You know, we are in a country where political parties suspect each other very much. The opposition will suspect that the President will want to take advantage of any declaration of a state of emergency to remove the governors. Do not forget that two of the affected states do not belong to the PDP. The PDP would have been happier if things were done more thoroughly. Like Adamawa, for instance, where the sitting governor lost the local government election very woefully and obviously, does not enjoy the confidence of the people, removing such a governor from office would appear to go down well with those who have lost confidence in him. If a leader no longer enjoys the confidence of his people, how can they cooperate with him in making the law effective? They will rather want to depend on the federally controlled authority.
We may just have to wait and see. But I would have preferred the emergency declaration to be more thorough so that the effect will be on the insurgents and maybe on the politicians. Like now, it looks to me that it is only the security agencies that have been gingered up and their heavy might will ultimately fall on the ordinary people. Of course, they will want to do their job by controlling the people and controlling the movement of the people in the affected states.
I wish that we will not see some of the things we used to see in the past. However, I still think that unless care is taken, once more, the people who will feel the effect most, apart from the insurgents that they are looking for, will be the ordinarily law-abiding citizens.
In summary, I think the emergency law will be accepted by the people, but then, let us wait and see.
By allowing the political status quo to remain, what implications will this have on the effectiveness of the emergency law in the affected states?
The measure is not sweeping enough with the governors, legislators, and local government chairmen in place, the measure cannot be said to be sweeping. But again, politics is involved. The President did not want to create room for suspicion that the opposition states were the target, just as he also wants to enjoy the goodwill of the PDP state.
How timely or belated was the President’s declaration of the state of emergency?
This is the kind of question you should be asking those in opposition and not a member of the PDP like me. I am sure you want me to make an editorial on the President’s action. In my opinion, there is no problem in the timing. Rather, there is a problem with the extent or scope of the emergency.
Your state, Adamawa has been enmeshed in political crisis for some time now, with the governor pitched against the PDP National Chairman, Alhaji Bamanga Tukur. And now, more salt has been added to the injury with the imposition of state of emergency. What collateral damage has this on the politics of the state?
You are asking me to comment on what you already know what my position is. It cannot be any worse than it is already. The latest development can only make things better for the people. As for the political implications of the crisis between the governor and the PDP National Chairman on the state, the people of Mayo Balwa Local Government Area, where the governor hails from, have demonstrated their unhappiness with the state of affairs in their area by voting massively against the governor’s candidate in the last local government election.
What that means is that thank God, the PDP in Adamawa is no longer in the governor’s hands. You may not agree with me, but the governor went and hired a candidate from an obscure party called Kowa Party, which in Hausa, means ‘Everybody’, but which I will prefer to call ‘Bakowa’ Party, meaning ‘Nobody’s’ party. He was squarely routed or defeated in the election despite all that went on before and during the election.
That, in itself, was a massive plus for the people of Adamawa. I feel that if this type of restorative measure is continued, there will be light at the end of the tunnel.
As one of the key political gladiators and stakeholders in the Adamawa State, what have done in your capacity to bring about amity in the simmering political crisis?
Why do you refer to me as a gladiator? I thought we were already two thousand years since the Roman Empire. There is really no gladiator in all of the crises in Adamawa State. The governor just took his sword and has been shoving it in the face of everyone. All we have been trying to do is to ensure that Adamawa is okay while the governor has been doing what he likes.
You asked me what I have been doing. Call us whatever you like, elders or stakeholders, the important thing is that we are working together for our national chairman, Bamanga Tukur. We have been working hard and with the cooperation of the National Working Committee of the PDP, we have elected a new executive for the state and also carried out new registration for members.
Unfortunately, one of the state House of Assembly members died. But this provided a sad opportunity for us to show who enjoys the support of the people. And we had an election in the governor’s local government, which was an opportunity to show his standing in the state, unfortunately he lost scandalously, despite going out to rent a candidate from another party. It was obvious he had no viable candidate to foist on the people and he had to go and rent one who was roundly defeated in the election. The election was monitored by INEC and observers from other states.
The emergence of Governor Murtala Nyako on the state’s political firmament was through your instrumentality. Any regrets for propping him up?
I am full of regrets for my action and I have since apologised many times to the people of Adamawa State. I came to realise that I did not know Nyako very well. He is a brother. That is fine. But as a politician and a leader on whom the trust of the people has been placed, I did not know him very well. A lot of people were surprised that he could do the kind of things he has been doing. He was a military governor once and one-time Chief of Naval of Staff and now governor again, but he has not justified the trust and confidence of the people of Adamawa State.
How exactly do you mean by people were surprised that he did the kind of things he did?
It’s been all over in the papers. I do not think I can capture all of them now for you. I cannot say it eloquently like the Adamawa people will. You represent a great paper like The Nation, so, I expect that you should go there and take a look at the situation for your paper. There is nothing I will tell you here that will make much sense to you without being accused of bias. You just go to Adamawa and see things for yourself. Ask anybody in the state and they will paint a picture of the deplorable situations in the state for you. Suffice it to say that Adamawa is today the worst administered state in Nigeria. They have not received anything by way value for the money, votes and trust invested by the government and the people.
If you say you did know him, was the first four years not enough to have done a checklist on him to ensure that he was not returned to leadership position in the state?
After his first term, he contested and won, following which the court annulled his election. So, as faithful party members, we were all with him when a fresh election was ordered by the court. We supported him and ensured that he won his rerun election. But things soon began to change and the man started showing his colour, much to the surprise of everyone. He was no longer doing what we elected him to do. And we parted ways because I could not go on deceiving myself that all was well with the way the state was being run.
Do you feel betrayed by Governor Murtala Nyako?
I felt I had made a serious mistake by pushing him into the heart of the people of Adamawa State and I have severally apologised.
Do you imagine former Vice-President Atiku Abubakar having the last and best laugh?
Do you think we have finished laughing? We have not finished laughing yet. And as for Atiku, I have no reason to apologise to him, because he was the one who transgressed against me. I was just sitting down in Abuja doing my job as a senator when he decided to use his vice presidential powers to remove me. Fortunately, the Constitution of Nigeria was there to make recourse to and I escaped being removed by whatever means Atiku wanted. That was long ago. There are really no differences between us to settle. He is my younger brother and he will always be my younger brother. We are back and working together. What is going on in Adamawa is not a matter of who is going to have the last and best laugh. I never, in my wildest imagination, thought that Nyako would do the sort of things he is doing in the state.
There are insinuations that the festering crisis between Nyako and Tukur in Adamawa State is as a result of the struggle to install or impose their sons on the state as governor, come 2015. Is this truly the undercurrent?
I do not exactly think so. But it might as well be so. But I doubt strongly if that is Bamanga’s problem. Do you know what Bamanga’s problem is? He is a national chairman who was elected in a very hostile atmosphere. Everything under the sun was done to stop him being made chairman. I do not know what they had against him.
But with regards to his son wanting to be governor of the state, the young man has been a politician for a very long time now. He was a member of the House of Representatives in 1999. He was acting minister for a brief period at a time. He was Chief of Staff before Nyako’s election was annulled. So, he has been a politician in active politics all the while. He does not come across as one who is being prepared to be governor by somebody.
But in contrast to Governor Nyako’s son who was in the Navy and who, up till now, we cannot say whether or not he has left the service or not. But he relocated from Lagos to the Government House in Yola. We saw that as very odd. He was always seen in uniform. I do not know if he has retired. But today, they say he is the chief and leader of all youths in Adamawa State, appointed by a certain chief. He goes around as if he has already been elected governor with siren and security escorts. Up till now, no one can say what kind of job he has in government. Absolutely, there is no comparison between Tukur’s son and that of Governor Nyako’s. But the trust is no one knows who will win the governorship election in the state when the two come head to head against each other in 2015.
Is there any prospect of the crisis in the state chapter of the PDP ending anytime soon?
As far as I can say, we have virtually resolved the crisis in the party in the state. The party is supreme and it has won the election to constitute the state executive. And what is more, it has won the local government election in a key council area. So, we are on the way to resolving the crisis. By 2015, when the PDP wins the governorship in the state, the party would have finally resolved its differences.
And it would not matter whether it is Tukur’s or Nyako’s son who wins the election and…
(Cuts in) You are trying to be mischievous now. If you have any more questions ask me, or else, we call it a day.
Another seething issue in the polity today is 2015, with the North menacingly poised for a showdown with President Goodluck Jonathan. What is your understanding of the unfolding power game?
The problem with politicians and ditto, Nigerians, is that they do nothing other than to speculate and take position on the next general elections. Now we are talking about 2015, it will amaze you to know that there are already people who’re jostling for 2019. That is what Nigeria has become. People take a job but they are not ready to do the work. They use the current job to look for the next one without bothering about what they were first and foremost elected to do. Nigeria is gradually turning to a country where electioneering is a permanent preoccupation. That is not good for democracy. Democracy is not all about electing people to show that you have a democracy, but to ensure that they work for the electorate. But this is not happening.
Are you in sync with those who insist that President Jonathan cannot vie for second term?
The Constitution is very clear on the qualifications for the office of the President of Nigeria. It is not the prerogative of anyone to ascribe. Of course, I know that President Jonathan is going to stand for 2015. I have always said this, but that is not the understanding of many other people from the North who alleged that they had a talk with him with regards to 2015. But I know that nothing is going to stop him. Asking the President not to run in 2015 has no legal provision in the Constitution. Even if you decide to pursue the matter up to the Supreme Court, there is no provision for him not to run in 2015. The only thing is that there will be a lot of bad blood. Everybody should be free to stand for elections, so long as you are constitutionally qualified. The outcome of the election is what matters at the end of the day. It is not everybody who stands for an election that gets elected in the end. The outcome of the election will resolve whatever issues that may exist. And I want to seriously warn that we must bear in mind that most of the crises we have had in this country were occasioned by election outcomes. That is why we must be guided by what we say in the run up to elections.
Pressure is also being cranked up in the polity by the body of governors, under the aegis of Nigerian Governors’ Forum. They have carried on literally, like pressure group and constituting a formidable force against the Presidency. How politically healthy is the development?
I have maintained that the governors cannot constitute themselves into a parallel government to the one at the centre. There is no constitutional basis for that. They have been behaving like an opposition government or a tier of government. But of recent, they have tried to behave themselves. However, the ongoing rift between the Rivers State governor and the Presidency is not good. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth. The two are sister-states. I cannot see how our governor can mobilise opinions and press against the Presidency just to create a situation of tyranny or to paint the Presidency as a tyrant. That is not good enough. You cannot find this elsewhere, not even in our neighbouring countries. Outside Nigeria, nobody knows anyone as leader of the governors’ forum. In effect, he is challenging the President all in the name of the leadership of the Nigerian Governors’ Forum. What is governors’ forum and which section of the constitution is it found? Why would they take a mere consultative body and make it look like a statutory body? After all, we have the National Assembly, which is a body to check the President and not the governors’ forum.
As a former Minister of Education, you enunciated the Nomadic Education policy. Years after your stewardship, how alive is the scheme and how would you rate its success or otherwise?
It was successful and is still very much alive. There are children of the cattle Fulani herdsmen who are students of the scheme. What has pleased me with the programme is that the children of the herdsmen are the ones who are defending it today. If you start anything new, make sure that the beneficiaries are the ones who would want it to continue. I am not saying that there were no problems with the nomadic education policy. There were bound to be and there are still bound to be. I am not happy with some of the things going on with the policy. But nomadic education was established under the law and you cannot wake up one morning and want to abolish it. The policy is still on but not like a wild fire that I would have liked. There are always appropriations for it in the budget and approved by the Senate Committee on Education.
Do you know any of the graduates of the policy or school that you can point at and say yes, these are the graduates?
Of course, yes. There is one who comes to my house and there are many others who are graduates of the policy.
You mean cattle Fulani beneficiary graduates come to your house and you happen to know them as beneficiaries of…?
(Cuts in amid laughter) Do you want them to come to my house with herds of cattle for me to recognise them as beneficiaries?
Critics of the policy insisted then that it was introduced apparently to benefit your fellow Fulani kinsmen. Would you say that was a fair criticism?
It was an unfair criticism because I could not have introduced nomadic education to favour the Igbo. There were no nomads and there are still no nomads among the Igbo.
What about the Ijaw fishermen, were they beneficiaries as well?
Of course, they were also targeted. They have their secretariat somewhere in Aba. Did you expect me to have gone to your state (Cross River) to introduce nomadic education when you do not have nomads among you?
There was a revelation in the Senate recently that the North controls 83 per cent of Nigeria’s oil blocs. How many of these did you award to your Northern brothers and sisters during your spell as Minister of Petroleum?
How many did I award to myself? How many did I award to myself? You should have asked me how many I awarded to myself. Go and find out how many I awarded to myself before you ask me that rubbish question.
You described my question as rubbish?
Yes, it is absolute rubbish.
But you awarded oil blocs during you time as minister, didn’t you?
I awarded to everywhere, not only the North.
But with the majority to the North?
It is not true. If that was the case, I would be feeling very bad about it. But it wasn’t the case. Definitely, not during my time as minister. Maybe it was after my time and under what circumstances, I wouldn’t know. So the revelation from the Senate may be true, but I doubt it.
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